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Martin

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hey guys n girls.

We all know that the games industry is super competitive. It's really tough to make good money in this industry unless you are in the top 10% or even less than that. As a entrepreneur, the big question I always think about is 'Which industries generate the highest wealth?'. Also, do people need to be so high up in the top percentile to generate high wealth in other industries?

For example, in mobile games, a person / company who is in the bottom 10% in the app stores in terms of revenue is probably making a few hundred dollars per month or less. Whereas someone who might be in the bottom 10% in the real estate market might be bring in enough revenue to cover all their living costs + more (this is just a guess of course). Or for example someone who works as a stock broker may be far from the top percentage players, but still can make good money.

On the surface it seems like being in the mobile game industry is an 'all or nothing' situation but with a lot of other industries the wealth is more spread out.

If you were to start a new business which industry would you go to?

For me I would be looking at investment / stock market, real money gambling games / eSports, or perhaps real estate. The investment / stock market is of particular interest to me because it seems like there is good money to be made if you have a good strategy, and you can beat out a lot of the investors who have no strategy at all.
The other major thing here is that people HAVE TO PAY MONEY. One of the huge problems with mobile games is that users are now conditioned to want everything for free, and a $1 purchase is considered a lot. Even the best companies in mobile games often only achieve a 3% - 5% in-app purchase rate, super low. 
In real estate, gold, stock market, cars, gambling etc, the person involved HAS TO PAY MONEY, there is no way around it. Ask yourself this, when was the last time you paid real money for a mobile game? I asked my wife and she can't remember.

The other point about investment / stock market / real estate / gambling is that the transactions are often large. People pay big big money for a house or to buy gold / stock (depending on the purchase of course). Houses and real estate are not commodities like cola, water, fries, tooth picks etc where companies always compete on price. Instead these industries have big purchase values.

One of the other reasons I'm asking this question is because I often hear stories of how people have done well in other industries in just a couple of years. They have an office, operations, staff, a good revenue stream etc. But for us it seems that even after almost 5 years we are not much further than where we started off. This isn't through lack of trying, we try extremely hard, but could it just be that the mobile games industry is too too 'hit driven' and 'top heavy' (the top 10% make 90% of the revenue). And could it be that the market value of mobile games and app stores is just smaller than other industries where more people are successful? Is it just simply the wrong industry and if we had put 5 years of effort in to real estate for example, we would be doing so much better.

I ask myself these questions a lot. It'll be great to know what you guys think and which other areas of entrepreneurship you look in to.

Chat soon [smile]
Martin

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tubemice

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Martin, nice hearing from you, you've got a point about game industry, yes but I assure that at first when you want to put yourself into game industry(especially indie), most of the reason is "you love play/make games", otherwise how can you keep doing this for 5 years?

I'm sure you still love playing/making games in your heart, maybe it's time for you to really make some games that you love from bottom of your heart, the game of your dream, the game that you want to make but couldn't 5 years ago coz you need to survive first, cannot afford 1 year time investment doing this risky "dream project";

if I were you or at your current phase(to be honest I'm still at early stage of trying survive in wild market), which have a relative stable revenue flow every month, can fed up myself, I will try my dream project, it won't be as big as MMO RPG, but at least I know I can complete it, and polish it until release, and share with people (maybe proudly can let them wow)

I still remembered previously when I still work in game company ( a very big one), one of our manager said that the reason most Chinese developers couldn't make greatest game, is because even developers themselves never play/enjoy the game they develop, and that's true in current market, people are just talking about money/revenue, they never care there need to be a soul in the game to attract player, maybe for most early start-up company, yes because they need to survive first, so they have to make lots of reskins/copy clones/buy source codes and release the game quickly, to trail and error, but after you do have survived, going next step is a must have, like someone on this forum already said "the quality will repay you in a long term"

for other industry that can repay well, well I really have no good idea, but I do know currently in China you should get away with real estate industry, it's too much high risk ( with the greatest expectation of RMB being devalued, the real estate industry is a real dangerous one), you read the news about JiaCheng Li , the richest Hong Kong business man, is leaving away Chinese real estate industry, start putting investment into robot/ Artificial Intelligence, and new solar power industry right

but higher reward always comes with higher risks, so although game industry is not a easily double your profit industry, at least you don't cost a lot expect time/engery

and it's too late to state it right now, but if you already invested into Chinese stock market last year (when that's above 2k points), and make a full clearance 4 month ago(when that's 5k points), you can already have a 200% profit in your account, but right now it's already too late to get into it, but I knew many people around, they work at home as indie stock trader full time

At least a failed game developer won't jump from rooftop to have ultra relief like a totally failed stock trader or real estate dealer


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Jake

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Reply with quote  #3 
@Martin, I moved into real estate just at the time of huge collapse. I started to sell log house and timber frame house kits and build them turn-key style. I picked the very worst time to do this move as I have seen financial disaster, 5 year long recession, pullbacks for tax rebates for house builders. Next year they estimate least housing starts in 65 years. It is all about price, price, price and I operate in high-cost custom market. Difficulties are all around, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is easier if the unit sale is higher. However one of my initial reasons was the higher unit price as a one seller has some limits with contacting potential clients... All I can say that now I am looking to expand into renovations as margins as well as the volume are far less volatile than with green field construction.

This takes me to your question. I would go to renovation business exactly because profit margin is good and the market is fairly stable also the older I get the more I get satisfaction from seeing something improved in a very concrete manner. If you check the list of richest people in the world they are mostly operating with a strong brand and in a market segment that is fairly stable (not least because they have built a strong brand) and profit margin is good. Real estate, banking, retail... all very simple businesses but so well executed that they just soldiered on and rose to the top.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2015/03/02/forbes-billionaires-full-list-of-the-500-richest-people-in-the-world-2015/

During my time in Taiwan (both sides of millenium) , I noticed that back in Finland SMS-to-TV got hugely popular, but nothing similar was going on in Taiwan. So I contacted a company MatchEm Ltd, which was providing this tech in Finland. One of the founders was a Finn called Sami Inkinen.  Unbelievably driven guy who later founded Trulia that sold to Zillow for 3,5 billion USD. He went where the money is and found a new angle to approach the market. The rest is - like they say - blood, sweat and tears [smile]

Your five years as a game developer/publisher must have accumulated very specific set of skills, which will benefit you no matter which direction you are steering your company. Portfolio application with game-like features maybe? Fantasy stock market mobile game? Sell the contact info for a ETF fund or sell your company together with the application for a wealth management company. One of my early jobs was to do telemarketing for a life insurance company the commission was insane and it was only a fraction of what our company got paid and THAT was only a fraction of what those clients were worth for that insurance company.

Hmm... Fantasy stock market game could have some RPG features like some bonuses helping to pick the times to buy and sell. Also one could incorporate dating simulation features like taking some courses... getting jobs in different companies, getting raises, promotions, working in different stock exchanges like London, Tokyo, Hong Kong. Make it either ultra realistic or super simple.

I was thinking to answer for tubemice too, but I have been on and off with this reply and the evening just flew past, so I'll get to that later.
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Jake

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Reply with quote  #4 
Tubemice, you are absolutely correct with the notion that one should do what one enjoys. If you do it for the money or some other reason, it better be ONE BIG obsession hugging reason, because down the line it is very probable that it will not be enough. Even if you get more than enough, it will not satisfy your soul, instead you just want more and more and that makes one unhappy person. Do what you enjoy and you will find the strength to go on. If you have dreams, it is even better... Good luck with your game and remember that it is a process. After you have published it, keep making it better and prepare updates and at some point of time new installments of the original title.


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Jake

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Reply with quote  #5 
An extension to a previous answer. Wealth comes from an operation that one can scale and give true value for users. Right now the most interesting development in Finland are medical doctor services. Only handful of practices offer house calls and it is usually the clients who must go to see the doctor (public or private).

Natural answer to this problem is "uber for doctors" more specifically individual practices not so much for single rogue doctors [smile]

Client pays more but saves time. Doctor will probably foster a special customer relationship, which shows in long-term customer relations. I would target practices as they are a natural entity to market the service. Probably someone would be willing to invest into the application itself.

Combining back office service would make it easy to sync the accounts with accounting and keep track of billings. From the consumer point of view the "uber for doctors" app should have some general health care features which would drive the general usage of the application.

Develop it and launch in Finland, improve it and push it to mass market status - a way to get more clients for private practices - and then either go international as most of the Western health care works just like it does in Finland. Maybe sell the service to someone and make few millions in the process.

Marketing this would be quite easy and the service would disrupt the market in a positive way as there are no real losers in this system. Therefore market acceptance wouldn't be a problem like it often is with new services. Individual practices wouldn't have to develop their own system for managing clients or market their house call services. Really a win - win. 

Just came to me that the app could have some general elderly care functions too like attach it to a bracelet that observes pulse... you know where this is going... [smile] really positive situation at the moment to go for it. Anyone out there able to code such a thing? Baby steps of course...
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Martin

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hey guys. I hope you're all having a great week. It's been a very busy few weeks here since we're now working on some larger games and some VR games too. All good fun though [smile]

I recently started a forum focussing on investment / getting rich because its something I alway think about and talk about. I remembered that we started a similar topic in this thread so I wanted to share the new forum with you guys. It's still in a super early phase and a lot needs to be figured out but hopefully the topics in there are interesting to follow. Here's the link:

http://howtogetrichinvesting.discussion.community/post/investing-in-your-own-business-is-the-best-way-to-get-rich-7797428?pid=1289890724#post1289890724

Don't worry about my work on this forum, I'll still be posting update videos on the Pro Section and I'll be doing another one this week. For one of our businesses our accountant is now helping me to do the revenue summary and it's really helped me to free up some time and build a forum focussed around the more general subject of investing, business, and getting rich.

Catch you on there.
All the best
Martin


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